tv A Conversation with the Archbishop of Cantebury CSPAN October 18, 2015 12:49am-1:56am EDT
a m1 abrams tank and free lunch at the pentagon. left the place for rumsfeld to find it. --sign it. my friend said he would not sign it. a couple of months later, he signed it. --one it would not be a tax paid lunch. >> we can squeeze in one more. >> i just want to say your cartoons in usa today. the one you showed. mike: cool. >> i also wanted to say thank you from a teacher of social studies. you make my life much easier with your cartoons, but a serious question i had, i wondered why there are few women
cartoonist and papers -- in papers. in this internet age, women are attacked more. i wonder if you had any --erience along those lines if you got more attacks as a woman cartoonist. >> i guess i'll answer that. yes. i have been in this business since 1992. there are certain topics that will get response regardless if you are a woman or a man. guns, antiabortion, anything. but since what you are talking about, women bloggers seem to get more attacks online, i recently did a cartoon after the gaza bombings. so many children were killed.
i did a cartoon, i did not think it would be controversial. i criticize the israeli government. it was an animation i do for the washington post. it was for monday morning. i sent it in sunday, not thinking. it was published, did not hear anything. all of the sudden midweek i got these e-mails that are not just, you are an idiot cartoonist. we are talking stuff that women do not want to hear. stuff.that's just -- bad i thought, what is this? come to find out, my editorial page editor with getting phone calls from special interest groups, jewish groups, complaining that it was anti-semitic. that is not where i was getting these e-mails. i was obviously get in people that were not happy with what i had done. that was sobering.
i was appalled. i wrote a blog about that. i thought, this is not acceptable. i will take criticism, but i will not be called certain names and described certain activities to me because i am a woman, and you do not agree with what i said. it is a bad development. >> on that high note. >> sorry. >> thank you all for coming. we hope you enjoy and stay for the rest of the conference, if you're leaving, please drive safely. [applause] . big applause for our guests [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015]
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world affairs of the archbishop of canterbury, justin welby. he spoke about the the elegy of climate change, and europe's responsibility and helping refugees. he also discussed size and structure of the church of england and the relationship with the catholic church. from the council on foreign relations, this is just over one hour. >> welcome. reverend welby is the 105th in
line in his position, going back hundreds of years. i will be engaging the reverend in conversation for 30 minutes. you'll get your turn to jump in. one reminder, those of you who are regulars here at the council know it is your duty to turn off your cell phones at this point. welcome, reverend welby. thank you for squeezing as an. -- us in. yes.ishop of canterbury: you can give us a sense of the anglican communion worldwide. give us a sense of the communion. thebishop of canterbury: communion has churches and 165 countries. provinces, each headed by a primate of some kind of another -- or another. in the united states it is
called a presiding ship. -- bishop. the 38 provinces are autonomous but interdependent. the church of england for historic reasons to do with the empire, the expansion of christianity through britain's mission in the 19th century. is the where it all started. the see of canterbury is the titular center of the anglican. the average anglican is an african woman in her 30's living in sub sahara africa on less than four dollars and they -- a day.
what you see in this country, or in the u.k., australia, new zealand, is really the exception. on the whole, we are a poor church with the poor. >> that is an amazing statistic. archbishop of canterbury: there are about 18 million. >> 18 million. that is an important data point. where is the concentration. what is the macro data. where are your biggest numbers? what are the trends? archbishop of canterbury: it is very typical of many of the traditional historic churches. churches typically are growing in global size. and they are shrieking in the global north. -- shrinking in the global north.
in the u.k., we have four england -- in england we were at our height in the 1930's, about 3.5 million. million are about 1.2 depending on how you measure it. whereas in nigeria, roughly 17,000,000-20,000,000 people attend anglican churches regularly. >> you say that these provinces are autonomous, what exactly does that mean, specifically with relation to your own role. what does it mean to be symbolic head? -- best symbolic head? archbishop of canterbury: some people might know the saying about the house of lords in the united kingdom that the house of
lords has power without responsibility. the privilege throughout the ages. the archbishop of canterbury has responsibility without power. it is a symbolic role. i cannot order anyone to do anything. the primates, which we are hoping to do in january for the first time in four years. it is an invitation, not instruction. if i gave an instruction quite properly they would ignore it. that works in england as well. the archbishop of canterbury has influence, but not power. i think that is the key thing. the influence depends on a andure of spiritual life seeking to work with and build
groups focused on particular issues that affect the communion. personal primacy in the sense that the pope is. popes or not anglican cardinals. the way it works in different countries is different. in many countries and sub-saharan africa, and the archbishop says something, people tend to do it they are told. it asland, they consider a suggestion as a start to discussion. membersso many of your -- so many of the provinces being in the global south, what challenges does that present to you, the archbishop. , fromntioned outside here whatyou had to cairo, to extent does that reflect the way
you have stuck to your work. canterbury:f structure would be a euphemism. is, it is not unique to us. we are not a paradigm. the problem i think most people in this room will be facing -- this is a theme i have been more conscious of the last year, if , andave a mobile telephone iphone or something, you have the entire world in your hand. all of the stuff comes in from twitter, the newsfeed, blogs, it is all there. there is no personal relationship. diversity,riety, coming at you at a huge rate in an unprecedented rate. look at the 19th century when the divisions in the anglican
community were as, located as now, they took several months to get to you. now they come at you in microseconds. have the personal face-to-face contact which enables you through diplomacy and prayer, interaction as a human through facing to deal with that. that is typical of business, church, manye different areas. ways, first of all we have to build structures that enable us to be able to trust each other and not be drawn into conflict by our structures within any institution. that is a massive challenge. it is a massive challenge for everyone here.
secondly, you do have to spend time going to see people and sitting down with them and listening with them. , i will ben cairo sitting, listening to global primates who will be quite critical for things i have done. they may well have been right. i will listen to them. we will pray together. the diversity is held in personal relationship. i think that is a common problem in the world today. we are increasingly struggling to deal with. candidou are being quite about this agreement or divisions within the communion. pope francis has talked often about he uses the term ideological colonization referring to the tendency of liberal congregations in the liberal imposing their
agenda around social issues on the south. we are all familiar i think with what happened here in the of his kabul church a few years ago with the ordination of a gay bishop. s that had inion the south. what has been your experience as archbishop in dealing with these difficult disagreements. issues ofy around sexuality, social issues, marriage, homosexuality, etc.. archbishop of canterbury: i am aware that in this room most people have forgotten more about this than i will probably ever know. cheerfully as i usually do. one of the things that strikes me, i need to carry it out and interest.
i am one of the bad people. when you talk to leaders in the global science, politicians or listen to people, politicians or church leaders, we need to remember that religion and a global science is still predominant feature. of life we mustn't forget that. someone a few years ago involved this, said we will do they were talking about a particular country and sub-saharan africa. they said they will do this not involving religious people. i said, which telephone box we meet in? -- will you meet in? you cannot get away from the reality of religion. that with leaders colonization has not stopped, it
is merely undergone a minimal -- a metamorphosis. become, it looks like something else. two let me give you examples. economically many countries and need toran africa develop their economy throughout the culture -- agriculture. yet they had difficulty shipping agriculture to europe because of subsidies by the european union. that is a form of colonization. it keeps them in poverty. social you have mentioned the issue of sexuality is one that goes intensely deeply into the way that the world is understood. it is a question of identity for many people.
the imposition as it is seen in the global south to new approaches to what it is to be human is resented more deeply than it is possible to describe. of -- you aree telling us whom and what we should be. a senior figure in one country said to be years ago, i did not go through the colonial. -- the colonial time and get rid of you people in order to come back a different form and in the same thing. there is a sense that colonialism has not stopped. i think we need to be frank and identify the problem. it is economic, social, it is on oures like sexuality where
understanding of the human being has changed dramatically. it goes to a lot of philosophical underpinnings of our views of a human being. the post modernist move towards radical autonomy has a profound effect on the way that we see our society should be structured. it is not cohere with many other countries -- does not cohere with many other countries. host: as symbolic head of the anglican communion, do you see a place for church teachings? is there no room for church teachings in the global sense? do you have to leave the definition of doctrine to each province? archbishop of canterbury: no, absolutely not. if we talk your church -- pure church, at the heart of christian faith is -- at the jesus christ.
the living, present jesus christ. for those who are christians we understand that in different ways. we meet jesus. it is all about jesus. there is not another way. it is not a body of doctrine in which jesus features. it is about jesus and the doctrine springs with the church trying to understand who this figure was. this figure understood to be both fully god and human when we come back to that, when we come back to the call of christ to serve the poor, to sacrifice, to take up his cross, to bear suffering with him, the church tends to unite struggling with issues of doctrine. , i ame all struggle with
not criticizing anyone here, it is something i find within me and the situation in which i wanting struggle with our own view of how that doctrine applies to be the universal view. say, inannot just england you can believe this and in kenya you believe this. that is not how the christian faith works. the heart is we believe in christ we are one. national barriers, stereotypes are broken down. that is crucial. that is my hope and vision for the communion. my prayer for the communion if it will be a place which says, immenseld there is a amount of diversity coming at you, there is hope to live together. to be a people to collaborate for the common good, serving christ. the anglican community is one of those bodies that should demonstrate that. -- : to take one example
example, doe one have each province approached the role of women at their own pace? archbishop of canterbury: yes, we do. at their own pace, it took the church of england 30 years from no objection to women as bishops to the point where we ordained women as bishops. our own pace is not swift. [laughter] host: you have done a lot of work in africa. violence of religious is pressing around the world. it is hard to imagine it being any more intense than in countries like nigeria for example. throughout sub-saharan africa, tensions between muslims and
christians have turned violent in so many cases. talk a little bit about what role you have played, and what really communion has played in attempting to resolve some of these deep issues. archbishop of canterbury: i think the communion -- let's talk about the communion and then i will say one or two things about myself. my wife, to visit with all 38 provinces to meet the primates. just to meet personally with the primates. one of the things most striking -- one of the common features was involvement in reconciliation work. it seems to be in the dna of anglicanism.
despite our own differences, we seem to find ourselves doing this stuff. we had a particularly memorable trip to south sudan. every time it was the middle of severe fighting. bodies were everywhere. it was dreadful. the drc, similarly. eastern drc. in south sudan we found the archbishop leaving the reconciliation work. we see that all over the place. that thenion, i know presiding bishop here has been involved. they are deeply involved in reconciliation. in our own struggles, we need to model that. we will always have significant differences. that is obvious.
think is having some difficulty despite my best effort to be everywhere always is to bless that work in reconciliation, and strengthen , encourage and develop local skilled in reconciliation. more than half of our provinces are facing persecution or are in close conflict of personal conflict. that really means this is for me one of the kid issues -- key issues. the more you see of it, i spent quite a lot of time doing it. quite many years.
it involves a willingness to re-examine ourselves, and our own role in conflict. the west, the economic system which often generate conflict. the overspill from conflicts in which we may have been involved. one of the striking things in northern nigeria was over the years, the way that they have mesopotamia,hantom the holy land, and they found inspirational provocation from the. -- them. it contributes.
we also need to get away from the binary christian muslim group question -- muslim question. and myanmar we were meeting bishops and their whole area was torn apart. india we have seen significant pressure on the anglican churches in the last 18 months. one of the most interesting so she out economic developments of the last four or five years is the development and all of the major global faith traditions of stream -- a stream of radicalized violence. i do not know why it is happening, i think it bears significant restructuring.
why is it that so many faith traditions are seeing a radicalization of a significant portion of their appearance -- adherence. mainstream strengthen to give a narrative the challenges and subverts officiently the narrative the radicalized people. host: that is an important point. our preconception is so wrapped up in radical extreme islam. you are saying this is a bigger problem than that. archbishop of canterbury: i am saying it is global. i don't think i am copying other people saying that. i have not had an original idea and so long. i am terribly important, you must listen to me. [laughter]
it is global, it is generally shall -- generational, and ideological. and after meeting with armed i learned thee -- phrase, connecticut force ki --netic force. in manyof violent force some of usnflicts, will be pacifist, others not. seems to be a quasi-police analogy as a way of creating space, time, safe havens, whatever. in the end these issues will be dealt with theologically, principally. like it or not, and many people in secular government do not like it, we have to deal with
the religious mindset. we have to get inside the religious mindset in order to have a serious impact on these conflicts. if you look at the three most radical islamic groups in mesopotamia, including isis. one of the common features is a deep conviction that we are in the end times. the world is about to end. when that is your view, it does slightly change your response to people attacking you. you have not got a lot to lose. you have everything to gain. it is that narrative that needs to be subverted. that needs to be shown to be false within their own ideological framework. begin to haveg to impact on those groups.
host: you have not always been in the church. you started out in the oil industry. you worked in africa? archbishop of canterbury: i said sorry many times. [laughter] host: this is a new audience. [laughter] tell us a little bit about that experience. explain. archbishop of canterbury: the oil industry? you dig black stuff up. you sell it. you make money. host: what did you learn? don'tshop of canterbury: dig holes in the wrong place. which we did. what did i learn? one thing in favor of the oil industry, forgive me, the oil industry and global industries are made up of people.
am -- large organizations are easy to condemn. i have a good fortune to work with a healthy culture. that was wonderful. host: what was your job? archbishop of canterbury: i was group treasurer. i ran the money. i borrowed money, spent it, paid some back, and then quit. before they came back. it was a small by oil industry standards, but large by industry standards. thing that isther important is the focus and research. trying to find out what you are talking about before you get into it. that is not always on high strengths.
-- always one of my strengths. it is important when you're looking at a current problem like religiously motivated violence, what are the key features? two what can we contribute? objectives make sense that we can make a difference to? what can we do that only we can do? that is the only thing we should do? it is very easy in this world to sound off about -- people are bad, it would be better if they were nice. that is not get you far. one of the key things i learned was a certain pragmatism. that is probably in my nature anyway. when --s very moment they're a moment when -- pragmatism is too easy of answer. -- an answer.
was there a moment of crisis? working in africa, you are exposed i'm sure to suffering. was very moment when you realize you want to do something else? archbishop of canterbury: no. it was not about when i wanted to do something else, it was about when i felt compelled. difficult to answer that question without sounding flemish -- flippant. the reality is i wife and i were a church when i was in my mid-30's, we were listening to a good sermon by an american who is talking about his own called -- call toministry ministry. we drove home and i said, this has happened, what do you think? , two years months
exploring that and going through the process of application. there was a moment where it came into my mind some of the longer the time went, the less i wanted to do it. my final interview with the 's opening question was, whitey want to be ordained? i said, i don't. he looks surprised and said what are you doing here? i said, i cannot get away from it. he said, what do you do we turn you down? and celebrate with my wife. there your. -- you are. host: this is a fascinating conversation. now it is your opportunity to join. you to obviously wait for the microphone, speak directly
into it, and begin with your name and affiliation. -- are right next microphone to the microphone. >> i am with the hindu american foundation, i appreciate your presence here today. francisnterpart, pope in nature to latin america apologized to indigenous people to spreading their doctrine and colonial times. -- in colonial times. what role can the anglican church play to facilitate forogue along those lines some of the damage done to indigenous peoples, particularly in places you mentioned. archbishop of canterbury: we have to a knowledge our responsibility very clearly -- acknowledge our responsibility very clearly. as it happens were
mainly in what is now india and pakistan. we have to knowledge the failures that were there. the church needs to a knowledge is part in those failures. we need to say sorry. i continue to do that. i think we also particularly to acknowledge the way that faith is not followed by the flag, but as -- is followed -- piggybacked by the flag. they use government to establish the power, rather than seek to challenge. as for the catholics in latin america, where there was an honorable defense, very often it was the acquisition of power. as in all institutions there is
an extraordinary mixture of the deeply wicked and enormously wrote -- heroic. you look at archbishop tutu in south africa and you see extraordinary heroism, virtue, beauty of life. there were plenty of other extraordinarily bad examples. it comes back to her history -- our history and the reality of it. studying it, recognizing with the mets are established -- myths are established. today, andes to england's they can do the christian forum, listening to their critique of how we are today. we spend a lot of time doing that, in england.
>> thank you, archbishop, thank you for the time you have given today. shows that the data both membership and attendance and anglican churches -- the church of england, and the community is declining. significantly so. it is also what we are seeing an american organized religion. many reasons for this, but one of the issues that interests me is when you look at younger people and the disconnect with they are having problems with the basic message of christianity. against that background, you and pope francis have a lot in common. archbishop of canterbury: i wish. >> your fundamental belief in
the christian message. you are both humble. you are both simple and the way you deliver messages. popeave a you speak with great eloquence on morality and ethics. you both have tremendous capacity for the poor. again, why don't we see more collaboration when you are both fundamentally facing the same challenges in regards to the new generation and the information age? young people are getting their information -- they are not going to stone churches. they are getting information from places from which the church finds competition. what a great thing it would be to see a dream team out there
building sentiment for a true revival of religion in the western world. i'm cautiouslby: of putting myself in the same sense as pope francis. most most extraordinary, extraordinary. yes, there are positions arein the church that profoundly entering the work of the church in the western world and around the world. and, i wish i knew the answer to that. eenis a bit like -- we have b orarating since 1532,
somewhere around there, depending which you pick. after 500 years, separation becomes a bit of a habit. it is just how you think about the world. i think our first step is to challenge that psychology of separation. the wonderful place i had the privilege of living in in london, it is quite big. a big place in the. deed. a romaned a community, catholic community. there are five others and there the community for 10
months. 23 part-time, 16 resident. we have over 500 applications from people who have given up their jobs, career, made a significant sum of money in order to work extremely hard to not have not very much money at all in simple conditions and's spend a lot of time in prayer and studies. and they are between the ages of 23 and 35. they are deeply attracted to it. one of the things the church has to do is to say the christian life is a life of challenge. take up your cross and follow him. when we don't soft petal that, the response from young people seems to be absolutely extraordinary. when it is all about self, they
think there are other ways to do that that are less complicated. pick up your cross. have a strong message. every single day, we pray a prayer that comes from the community that we feel the separation. denominations. of thativing the theme separation day by day. receive,le cannot others can depending on who celebrates it. we have to challenge this habit of separation. there are not many answers to it. it is something we cannot live constantly with. we have to challenge it. it starts with our social action together. answer,not a very good
but that is the best i have at the moment. tom: back in the middle. herald with guide star. i'm wondering if there is that theology of change.l would you agree, is there a climate theology of change? archbishop welby: yes. you are talking to one of the least scientifically capable people. i do try and keep up with this and read about it, but i don't pretend to have any expertise at all. of climateeology change starts with god is creator. ascontinues with the church
existing in time and space. it is through time and space. therefore, there is a profound commitment -- a profound overriding of the horizons of our lifetime. in it theso with an stewardship of creation which humanity is entrusted. climate change and how we deal with that -- within that, we have to apply -- and i will not go further down the road, but we have to apply science. like nicholas stern in the u.k. has been extremely influential on this. pope francis was profoundly advised by great experts.
yes, there is a very clear the ology that says not that is nothat thaose yet born is just as important. there is a common responsibility which is solidarity. both catholic and christian teachings. polynesia, this is really quite important. we are literally drowning. tom: yes, ma'am. >> i'm with human rights first. you talked a lot today about violence, religiously motivated violence. one of the trends we see now is the rise of anti-semitism and
anti-semitic hatred and violence. i wonder if you could talk a little bit about what you are doing to build bridges between christians and jews. i would love to hear also about your thoughts on the role of the church and the broader refugee crisis in europe. archbishop welby: thank you. i will try to keep it short. i discovered after the newspapers started digging into my past when i was appointed into this role. they discovered my father -- this is slightly a surprise. he died in the 1970's. there you are.
that is the declaration of interest. -- iise of anti-semitism think of there is a reemergence semitism that has been in european culture. i don't think there are people that have become anti-semitic. thatnk there is this sense emerges catastrophically from time to time. it is very powerful. what are we doing? public,oing some symbolic stuff which is important. parliamentaryer groups talking about anti-semitism. there was a lot of attention. a number of top politicians came to that despite the fact had
other things on their mind from right across the political spectrum. tough where we find anti-semitism within our clergy. we are very straightforward with that. -- it is aon challenge. i think we need to keep speaking about it. it is one of those challenges you cannot take for granted. we have to remember in europe, not the united states, we have very little moral standards when it comes to anti-semitism. our history is too long -- we have to always speak with great humility. secondly, the issue around the refugees. the church and bishops have been working very hard with the government.
i have spoken with the house of lords. one of the strange things about this job. in theery involved debate of how many refugees we took. we have been having very clear discussions with the government on the numbers that should be taken. communion world, the has been impacted because on the whole it is from which refugees are coming, not from which they are going. europe --e bishop in we don't call him bishop of europe because it would seem a little presumptuous -- the bishop in europe, there are 300 or 400 churches around europe.
they have been working unbelievably hard on the ground in meeting the needs of the refugees. as the communion, this is an figures acording to few weeks ago, 59.7 million. it is not only in europe. in the communion, that may well be one of the issues to discuss. places like tanzania, congo, baroody, uganda, generally west africa have numbers of refugees that are coming into europe. one of our roles is to remind people of the poorest of the poor that are suffering beyond all description, even compared to the appalling situation of refugees on the borders going into europe. tom: what are they telling you
about the conditions that drive their people to leave? archbishop welby: a lot. [sigh] it is nothing surprising. it is war, poverty, inequality of opportunity. it is persecution. which the u.s. government is particularly good on confronting. it's -- it's also societal breakdown in other ways. there is a trend of breakdown of families which these children women as always, single -- immensely vulnerable. trafficking of slaves affecting over 30 million people is a
major driver, particularly in women being trafficked into being sex workers. last meeting a charity thursday. extraordinary bunch of young seven or eight month for all00 a of them. not any pay at all. they work with sex workers in that particular area. 85% of the people they work with have been trafficked. very rare to find someone who was not trafficked. their work is to find them dignity and secondly try to find ways forward. what is driving this is all the things that has always driven it.
given that we now know about it, we have no excuse for not responding to it. tom: yes, sir. >> wayne smith. what suggestion to you have for promotingleaders in christian-muslim dialogue and reconciliation? archbishop welby: change stereotypes. we have to challenge stereotypes. we have to start and meet people. we are doing a lot of that. with leaders and ordained. from within the christian community. take risks. talk toto be willing to always theare not
kind of people we want to talk to. i'm not talking about the jiha dist extremists. i'm saying it is no use saying we will only talk to the nice people. it is not the nice people that are causing the problems. towards an onrk discussion that starts with we already agree with each other, which is what what i used to say to my children. thated to work away from ourrds -- here are fundamental issues that causes the differ. we think we are right, you think you are right, but there is a
different approach to the human being, a different approach to how you deal with people on the edge, people outside your faith and community. we'd much more integrity and dialogue. we need to form relationships with people whose views may be exceptionally challenging and uncomfortable. we have to take some risks doing that and not be naive that we are just dealing with nice people with whom we can have nice conversations. i don't think that helps. i can go on for hours on this. it is a passion of mine. seen,st work that i have been involved in, is when when we are able to say we disagree with you profoundly on this as we transform it from violent to nonviolent. tom: are you having any of these
discussions within england? archbishop welby: yes, constantly. >> my name is tom. i'm a professional board member. your grace, thank you. have a daughter that is an anglican priest. she says one of the things she appreciates is your evangelical spirit. in this country, and angelica a badelicalism is word. tose of us find it hard explain what it really means. what would you say to instruct people in the media here who use it wrong, wronlgly? thank you. archbishop welby: that is a
seriously difficult question. i was not prepared for that. for what it is worth, my definition of -- i would parties.-- i love i love parties. i don't join groups very easily. yes, i consider myself evangelical. i think that is fair to say. for whom thehat final authority in belief is found in scripture properly interpreted. that covers it. that is where i come from. it has nothing to do with your politics. -- i know evangelicals
are the left in england and on the right. i agree with some, i disagree with some. i agree with some of the things some say on both sides and disagree with some on both sides. it is not about your attitude to ors, a nuclear deterrent social rights. it is about where you find authority in your life, in your creeds and behavior. it is a rather shorthand definition, but if you don't mind, i will leave it there. tom: yes, sir. >> good morning. i'm wondering, going off your previous answer, the interfaith dialogue into a social movement
given the industry and the nice people you refer to. think you welby: i cannot do everything in public. moments for symbolic get-togethers. there are moments where you have to operate below the radar, meeting people quietly in save spaces. the most difficult thing we struggle with -- my director of reconciliation is here and the do we create safe space for google to get to the point where they say what they really think -- how do we get to a safe space where people can say where they really think? everyone will be worried in the
media, they will be threatened. a religious leader from a saying i justh had my third of the day. i cannot go on with this what yo. people take huge risks doing that. we have to take risks, but part of the risk is creating safe space and not doing what we are doing. part of this world in your hand problem is that unless you seem to say or do something, clearly you do not care which is rubbish. n the council of for i foreign relations, you know the problem. it is below the radar. the risk means you have to be
politically -- that is an english word. tom: yes, sir, back there. >> good morning. bill aiken from the buddhist community. thank you for taking the time with us today. i'm wondering if you go further into -- you have been discussing the issues of dialogue and sometimes difficult dialogue. mostgine some of the challenging dialogue is within the communion. we talked earlier about ideological colonization. i'm sure it comes face-to-face with sometimes fundamental senses of human dignity and morality. tellondering if you could us more about your process and
how you have been engaging and walkingwith issues with the line with not being an ideological colonial, but having truth, il speaking guess, in the difficult moment. i'm not talking about gender issues regarding physicians and the church. church.ns in the can you give us a little more insight into your struggles with that? archbishop welby: the main struggle is getting very isolated. you have to meet people. met these people, the sex workers i told you about a , there was ago lovely message. one of mine family came into the kitchen. i was so moved that -- by this.
you have to let your heart be broken. you cannot be too professionalized about this. you have to let your partly hearts be broken. everyone treating you grandly. you don't get out and away. heart beour broken. that will come in a number of ways. au touch on a point which is point of immense personal pain of how i hold truth and compassion together in discourse. myself,my time talking telling myself i gt